GM: A Day Late and a Dollar Short

"Groagun" (groagun) 10/21/2013 at 21:08 • Filed to: None

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Over the last week or so GM has been saying that it is looking at alternative power-trains to propel their big 3 SUV's. I've read many posts on this very subject and today after reading this one !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

I've never owned one but have driven many and just have to ask those of you who do own or love these, what exactly draws you too them and why wouldn't you want a hybrid or diesel option?

It seems to me that these types of vehicles are best suited for such technologies. Diesel I think is an easy one so I don't really care. Diesel makes sense for towing and hauling plus long distance runs fully loaded and even field work like construction or remote work site access.

So that leaves hybrid technology. Am I wrong in assuming that only 'real men' drive these kinds of vehicles and that the stigma of owning a hybrid doesn't sit well with the good old boys around the camp fire shootin shit!

Culture aside, as stupid as it is, the very engineering and layout of these vehicles again seems perfect for the technology. I'm not a hybrid evangelist and I'm not totally convinced of the technology at this point in history either but, if any vehicle on the roads in America could or should be hybrid than these must be it.

Weight generally seems to be of no concern and the sheer size and space available seems perfect for battery storage and electric motors. No matter which way you slice it, fuel consumption can only get better in these trucks if a hybrid system is installed.

So how is it that GM is a day late and a dollar short? My MS Paint picture has the Tesla Model X and they seemed to have figured it out. No they are not exactly the same size and you may argue that they don't compete in the same segment but I think GM may lose some customers to Tesla.

The old hybrid versions of the Cadillac and GM pickups were generation one technology and lets be honest, terrible. I give GM credit though, they did it. Where they went wrong was not following up and improving. True they had no real incentive and their trucks were selling as fast as they could produce them and no one was calling for hybrids but many predicted correctly the growing need for the technology and it was even echoed in the Volt of all cars.

The heavy duty work crowd will go GM and diesel if they can get it but the average Joe who never goes off road and is the urban Suburban warrior may just look Teslas' way. Saving fuel and being environmentally friendly, even if just by appearance only, does count today and will count more in the years to come.

So I put it to you again, Matt 'Texan' Hardigree, is the stigma of owning a hybrid just too much to bare or should the large SUV owners of America take the lead on new and alternative power-trains and show the rest of us how it's done?

I simply cannot believe that GM is pondering this question today: It's mid boggling too me. The Escalade, Suburban and Yukon should all have these options right now. Once again GM is playing catch up and may pay the price for it, or should I say you the tax payer will pay for it?

Rico > Groagun 10/21/2013 at 21:13

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Because saving fuel and the environment just ain't 'merican.

Dunnik > Groagun 10/21/2013 at 21:16

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I think I re-discovered one reason this morning at work. I drive cars for a rental car company, and I hopped in a 2013 'burban. After I started her up, I gave her two mid-range revs, just to listen to that V8 sound, however muted it was. I don't do this with any other vehicle we have - even the Camaro RS and C300 Merc.

Straightsix9904 > Groagun 10/21/2013 at 21:16

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My problem isn't that "real men" don't drive them. It is that the half assed hybrid systems that are bolted on to say it is a hybrid, drive the cost of the vehicle up, limit the functionality, and. Don't improve mileage.

Groagun > Straightsix9904 10/21/2013 at 21:24

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Totally agree with you but, I would hope that GM would engineer it's own technology and solution into the truck and make things better. I know they can do it, I'm just surprised they haven't.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > Groagun 10/21/2013 at 21:37

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Believe it or not, packaging a battery onto these things is actually pretty difficult. Between the live rear axle, 2 drive shafts in the 4x4 trim, and fold flat 3rd row there isn't a lot of room left.

Also these SUVs are already pretty expensive. I don't think many would spring for an extra ~5000 bucks worth of hybrid. This is the main argument against diesel as well.

Lastly, hybrid technology doesn't really fit in with the main purpose of these vehicles which are load carrying and towing work vehicles. Unlike the BOF SUV hey days of yore, not many of these are grocery getters these days. Thats what the lambada SUVs are for. Now making those into a hybrid could make some sense.

JasonStern911 > Groagun 10/22/2013 at 01:38

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That was way too much to read, as my girl is complaining, but I don't get it. Stick an LSx in everything. Awesome motor, plus common parts mean reduced cost to produce and everyone wins.

Matt Hardigree > Groagun 10/22/2013 at 08:16

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I think we've learned that, at least so far, the hyrbid options aren't great for these kinds of vehicles. As others have said, many people are being smart and changing their grocery getters from Suburbans to, at least, Enclaves.

Diesels fit better with people who are going to use it as a family vehicle+ (with the + being towing a camper/trailer/whatever). That being said, there's a big cost component to that.

Anyone know the take rate on Excursions with diesels?

ss_lump > Groagun 10/31/2013 at 20:07

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I used to own a GMC Yukon Hybrid. Ironically enough I have an order on a Tesla. The Yukon was by far the best SUV I've ever driven. It got 20 MPG, had instant torque, and a smooth ride and nvh. Plus, I got to roll through the neighborhood in full electric "golf cart mode". It basically made owning a "fuel efficient" midsize sedan pointless. For reference, I had a Ford Fusion rental a few weeks ago with the 2.0 Ecoboost and it struggled to get 20 MPG in combined city/highway driving. You may say that because it is the uprated engine I shouldn't expect it to be getting 30MPG, but consider the fact that my Yukon had a 330 HP V8 and 3 tons to lug around. If GM hadn't fucked a good thing up by selling this in lower trim levels for reasonable prices, they would've been a success.

ss_lump > Matt Hardigree 10/31/2013 at 20:13

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I own a 2013 Enclave and frankly, it gets shit mileage compared to my old Yukon Hybrid. Only averages around 18-19 when the Yukon would get 20.

ss_lump > Dunnik 10/31/2013 at 20:14

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The 6.2 exhaust note was great on the Denali's and Escalades. You could remote start them in parking lots and scare the shit out of people when they roared to life.

Groagun > ss_lump 10/31/2013 at 21:01

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It's always great to get a response to a relatively old post, so thanks. And thanks especially as you were an owner who can honestly tell it like it is. I think your experience is(was) exactly what I think hybrid drive-trains should be. Putting them into large trucks like yours just makes sense to me.

I'm still have no idea why many have hang ups or unfounded dislikes of the technology. I understand the fear of something new and unproven but it seems more visceral and to be honest, 'red neck' too me.

As long as the truck does what it needs to for you, why do you care what powers it? While again I am not an advocate for full electric power at this time, other than Tesla if you can afford one, the march of technology forward will one day mean we all may have electric cars, and so what!

I love the noise, smell, feel and familiarity or gasoline power, but if it's time for something new, then it's time.

Thanks again ss_lump